Tuesday, November 5, 2013

Itsan - A Hand Holding Forum?

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I say the following with plenty of reservations because Itsan has done so much in getting out the word on tsa/tsw, and has been a great place where all tsw's can come together (except for myself and a few others). My purpose here is to educate and to open up much needed debate on a couple of important issues that affect all tsw sufferers. If enough people come to the same conclusions that and others have, then possibly things will change on the itsan forum for the better.

I want to share my experience on the Itsan forum, a forum where most new suffering tsa/tsw people find their way to, and end up relying on the veterans of the site for their information and support. Itsan isn't just your average forum. Itsan is a support forum for tsa/tsw sufferers, of whom most are extremely ill, and are searching for answers.

Most so called "vets" and forum staff have been on the forum the longest and have either finished topical steroid withdrawal, or have been in tsw for well over a year, and in some cases much longer. However, I learned practically nothing of value from these people while being a member of the itsan forum. What I did learn from the "vets" there turned out to be dead wrong. Why did I learn so little from such a big support group sharing so many ideas and experiences? Am I just too full of myself? Do I think I know it all already? No, no and no. The answer is really quite simple. Itsan is a private forum and all content shown on the site is controlled by the owners of the site. Members are only allowed to see what information itsan wants them to see on their site, and everything else is deleted as fast as it gets posted. This is their right since it is a private forum and one must agree to the terms and rules before being allowed into the group. However, I doubt these people realize what side effects this kind of information controlling can have in a forum that is relied upon by seriously ill people. I certainly didn't at the time.

So, here is my story on what I experienced on the itsan forum. It is not my intention to disparage itsan here, only to share my experience so others can have a better understanding of how a private forum works and not fall victim to falsehoods like I did. I am not into bad mouthing anyone. I want to be clear about that. My intentions are honorable and meant to simply educate others so they don't make the same mistake I did. And hopefully, to get the "vets" to rethink their stance on these issues so that they perhaps will change what they tell new people to tsw. And, to ignite debate on both issues of speeding up tsw, and the effects moisturizing has on tsw healing.

Itsan is a private forum. One must always keep that in mind when searching for information there. It seems to be much more of a "hand holding" support forum than it is an informational support forum. I strongly believe people new to tsw are looking for information much more so than they are looking for kind words of encouragement. I also believe that access to all information is key in what these people need. Therein lies the problem. What I found so difficult to deal with being a member of the itsan forum was it's freedom of speech rules. When any forum, private or public, or any community for that matter, only allows certain viewpoints deemed appropriate by it's owners, or whoever is in control of said community, it creates a situation where only one side of the story is presented, instead of both sides. They limit information under the guise of not wanting to confuse or set expectations in the minds of new tsw sufferers. Admirable, but they apparently don't realize they are already setting expectations by what they do say.

Itsans forum guidelines and stance on speedier healing as of a few weeks ago were as follows:

"As many years of combined medical research and numerous anecdotal experiences have borne out, no treatment has shown to accelerate the healing from topical steroid rebound, red skin syndrome, or withdrawal.  With our current body of knowledge, the only true indicator of healing is the passage of time."

In the itsan forum for example, members are basically told one side of the story by forum staff and "vets", mainly that tsw can not be sped up, so don't bother trying to speed it up via diet, meditation, moisturizer withdrawal, or anything else. The staff and "vets" there tell everyone the only way currently known to get through tsw is the passage of "time". Members are forbidden to disagree, or present their own opinions on this. They can not contradict what staff or the "vets" say or their posts are deleted. Itsan staff and it's vets can make their claims with no real data to back them up, but newer members can't.

The only research I am aware of was done by Japanese doctors and their findings were moisturizer withdrawal is essential for recovery.

Itsan has a large influence over many newly suffering people due to it's increased exposure and support from people such as myself. I feel obligated to speak out since I supported this organization that I feel has unknowingly misled many suffering people. Since I did give financial support to this organization with the idea in mind they were a support forum, I feel a certain responsibility to the people itsan has an influence over after discovering what the truth really is on speedier healing and the damaging effects moisturizing has on people going through tsw. In my opinion, Itsan has a moral obligation to do what is right by these people.

Please bear in mind, that I did not make claims of faster healing on itsan, I ONLY asked that since members can't make claims of different methods to speed up the tsw process, can  staff and "vets" stop making claims that nothing can speed the process, since after all, they don't have studies to back those claims either. I asked this question in response to a reminder post to a different person who was talking about diet. Staff was reminding everyone to be sure and not make any claims of speedier healing for the umpteenth time.

My question made the hypocrisy all too apparent! My post was deleted and I was sent a warning. So, I emailed back a long email expressing my concerns.

It seems to me that it is a dangerous thing for a support forum for sick people to operate under the guidelines of a few people knowing what's best for all others, because if the few are wrong, many suffering people can be misled down the wrong path. And, that has the potential to cause much unnecessary pain and suffering.

Early on I believed what the vets were saying about how we shouldn't bother trying to speed up the tsw process with diet, and how it's a waste of your time and money. Forget ideas about MW. The only healer is the passage of "time". I even found myself parroting the same BS. It really disgusts me that I had done that. I remember deleting a post where I had done it sometime near the end of my welcome on the forum. I had believed what they were saying and was doing the same thing they were. But, in short time I knew this was all wrong and attempted to try and effect policy change. However, Itsan's rules state you aren't allowed to contact forum staff in any effort to change policy.

The belief system is the most powerful thing we have in healing. If we are led to believe that tsw can not be sped up, then that reality will surely manifest itself physically as sure as the sun will rise. If you disagree with my line of logic just look at the placebo effect.

It seems very apparent to me that tsw can indeed be sped up by a number of ways, as can most any healing crisis can. It would be much more supportive for itsan to allow this and other important information to be made available to the people and let them decide for themselves. At least don't constantly tell people that nothing can speed it up. That lends to hopelessness and despair in most people. It also influences people to feel like they have no power over their condition.

Since plenty of evidence has come out showing this line of logic to be completely wrong, I truly expected itsan to make some much needed changes to it's forum guidelines in respect to this matter in light of the information available. And, since it is much more supportive to tell people that yes, it's possible one can speed up tsw, but we just don't know how yet, than it is to tell them not to even bother trying.

Below is a copy of a post I made on a blog belonging to a well know itsan "vet" a few weeks ago whom I will leave nameless. It was deleted right away and I never did get an answer. 

My past post on a well known "vet" blog which was deleted:

(name omitted), with all due respect and sincerity, my opinions on whether tsw can be sped up are not based on how long I've been in tsw. They are based on my life experience and knowledge gained from what I have learned from fighting and beating a deadly disease I had at one time many years ago.

Please tell me approximately how many vets you are referring to in your statement...

"The "vets" on the forum have tried and tested many methods of relief, including diets, supplements and various therapies and have all come to the same collective conclusions about healing times: that nothing really speeds up TSW and it has to run its course."

I would be very curious as to the numbers. Are we talking thousands of vets who have completed tsw, hundreds, or 10's? Also, approximately how many have done it without moisturizing throughout most of the process? I look forward to your answer on this as it will shed a lot of light.

I have recently managed to get myself banned from the forum due to breaking the rules once too many, and apparently offending forum staff. It was not my intention to offend anyone, or break rules, but I am very passionate on the subject and can't keep my mouth shut when I feel a great injustice is being done.

I have tried to make what I felt was a very valid argument as to why tsw can be sped up to no avail. So, I then only asked that since members can not make claims of being able to speed recovery, that staff compromises on the issue for the sake of all tsw sufferers who are looking to the vets for answers, and cease telling members that nothing can speed up tsw healing as well. It would be so much more productive to simply say we really don't know, and not set that "belief" system in place in people.

I feel it is highly hypocritical for the vets and staff on itsan to make such claims with such little evidence, and at the same time not allow members to make the opposite claims with just as much, if not more evidence to the contrary.

The reasons given are there are no real data or controlled studies to back up any claims of speeding tsw. So, I tried to make the argument that there are also no real data or controlled studies to back up the vets claims, other than a small handful of people and their collective conclusions.

The fact is the vets have not tried everything there is to try. And, obviously they don't understand the placebo effect, the power of the mind, or the simple fact that things like good diet, certain supplements, exercise, positive thinking, and many many other things can speed up recovery of all disease symptoms arising out of any disease. That really is not a difficult thing to understand. But it sure seems to be with the vets.

I have read many blogs and just about every tsw sufferer parrots the same thing the vets have said about how "time" is the only healer. It is painfully obvious that these people are left feeling hopeless and helpless believing this falsehood. I even found myself doing the same thing, but then thought "what the hell am I doing"? When I know better.

I think it would be much wiser to allow people to have hope and to feel empowered than the other way around. Telling people nothing can speed up recovery breeds despair.

I'm extremely disturbed that the itsan staff doesn't "get" it. How anyone can not understand that supporting the body and mind can speed recovery is beyond me.

I have shown early on that not moisturizing speeds healing and I have been repeatedly ridiculed and ignored. The recent Japanese conference pretty much confirms what I already discovered on my own, yet it is being treated by certain staff as useless information, since it was not done with controlled double blind studies etc., etc. Many more people are now coming out of the woodwork expressing the same results. Not many have tried doing tsw without moisturizing yet most who have done it were successful.

I'm not saying that not moisturizing speeds recovery. I'm only saying it is possibly one component. I can't believe the resistance by itsan staff on this. But, since the few who have completed tsw did it using moisturizers most of the way, I can understand the bias. The vets need to be a lot more open minded and stop creating an atmosphere of fear on the forum if they want to really help people. I have never seen a forum where I was afraid to speak like I have seen in itsan.

I know the forum has it's rules and to be a member one must adhere to them, so I made the decision that my principles and free speech is far more important to me, and decided to no longer support an organization that I feel is doing so many so much harm. Actually, I didn't decide this completely on my own, itsan decided it for me by not allowing me to express my views to staff, by not compromising, and by banning me.

I have spent hundreds of hours trying to help people on the forum, donated money to itsan, and offered to help raise much more funds and exposure via an eBay charity program. And, all I got in return was ridicule, and treated like an imbecile. (end of post)

OK, it is very obvious to me from my own personal experience, logic, and common sense, that moisturizing not only inhibits, but likely slows healing tremendously. I moisturized in my first 8 weeks only because that was the consensus on how to deal with tsw and I didn't know any better at the time. I relied on what others with more experience had to say (Vets). The consensus was to moisturize throughout the process to stay comfortable since nothing can speed up tsw healing. I strongly feel that consensus was, and still is, flat out incorrect.

My conclusions seem to be confirmed by the information provided at the recent referenced Japanese conference of which you can find a link to in my blog, and in a few other blogs.

Early in my tsw I found that my skin wouldn't heal by being clogged and kept "wet". I concluded my slow healing was due to clogging the pores and not allowing the skin to breathe, dry and naturally heal. So, I quit moisturizing, exposed my skin to the sun early on (also against conventional wisdom) and my skin healed quickly. It took a couple weeks and after my first two days of nearly 90% healed skin I applied a moisturizer again and immediately went back into a flare within hours. It took another 2-3 weeks to heal my skin again by stopping moisturizing and repeating what I did before.

I truly feel if I had never stopped moisturizing I would be a total mess right now. Instead I am doing very well considering, and feel I'll complete my tsw sometime between month 8-12, if not sooner. I'm almost at my 5 month mark and am doing very well considering. I may be totally off base and have a horrible rebound much later down the road but we'll see. If I do, I'll treat it the same way by allowing my skin to breathe naturally which surely enables it to heal quicker than it would by smothering it.

It seems to me that everyone who has completed tsw using moisturizers has taken a much longer time to heal and unnecessarily suffered far longer than necessary. They also seem extremely resistant to the idea of not moisturizing since they themselves didn't take that route. And, also probably due to their strong beliefs in moisturizing. This idea has been pounded into our heads by the medical community for a very long time. So has the idea of using ts!

It is truly a shame I couldn't come to my conclusions via information provided by the so called "vets" on the forum and was led to believe just the opposite of what I ended up having to figure out for myself. It reminds me all too much of how I have been misled by doctors most my life and had to diagnose my self with practically every stinking medical problem I've ever had. However, I do not blame you vets, and do understand why you have acted the way you have. But, I sincerely do hope you will  "adjust" your collective minds and beliefs to this information that is so crucial to healing.

You vets have been so wrong about tsw healing, but yet even in the face of such strong evidence to the contrary, you still hold tight to your collective misguided beliefs like a magnet to steel, regardless of what information is presented. One does not need studies to see and know the obvious. It is beyond shameful for this to continue, because not only has this kept people from learning the information they actually need to know, but it has also contributed to much unnecessary suffering. That has been abundantly clear. I know it's difficult to accept that you all could have possibly completed tsw faster than you did if you hadn't moisturized throughout the process. I know you "vets" don't want to admit you have been wrong, or that you may have unknowingly misled suffering people and caused unnecessary suffering through your misguided beliefs in urging people to do whatever makes them comfortable, and in repeatedly telling members that time is the only healer and nothing else can speed up tsw. We are all human and we all make mistakes. However, It is important to realize when we do make mistakes and try to correct them. This is what I am not seeing and find even more alarming. I also know your intentions were good. But if you really care about the thousands you have so much influence over, as I know you do, you will admit you were wrong and change your mindsets and adjust how you support these poor suffering souls, as well as the new ones that become members of itsan as every day passes.

Again, as someone who has donated his hard earned money and countless hours to help educate and help not only the newbies but also the "vets", I have been deeply offended by itsan staff and "vets", and more importantly, have been extremely concerned for the safety of the many who look to you for help and guidance. It is extremely condescending, arrogant, and somewhat ignorant for those who have gone through tsw longer than others to act as though they know more about healing than ones with less time in tsw do. Just because you think you have been there and done that, doesn't mean you did the best thing. It only means that is how you did it, period.

I started off my early days on the forum by contradicting the "vets" on a couple things, like the vets parroting the medical establishments propaganda on colonoscopies, as well as the conventional wisdom on moisturizing, it was a warranted action on my part to try and bring a proper balance and perspective to what I view as one-sided misinformation, and a continuation of propaganda from the medical community, so members could make up their own minds based on facts, and not based only on the ongoing propaganda and on some tsw "vets" and their own personal beliefs. I backed up my claims with links to information that would open anyone's eyes quite wide if they had taken the time to read it and do further research on the subject. So, I only gave an opposing viewpoint and information which is what people really need to come to their own conclusions based on ALL information available.

As I have said many times, people need to be able to understand things if they are to have hope and feel self empowered. Blind faith only goes so far. And, I truly feel the forum has been like the blind leading the blind due to the controlled way information is disseminated by a very small minority who think they know what's best for the majority. Itsan has a moral obligation to do what is right, not only by it's supporters, but also by the members who look to itsan for guidance. People are much better equipped in dealing with any healing crisis when they have access to all information and points of view, then they do with just one viewpoint.

Again, just because it took a handful of vets 2-4 years to recover from tsw doesn't mean it will take everybody else the same amount of time. It only means you prolonged your recovery via moisturizing, and that's all it means. New people to tsw listen to you and take your advice, and because of you, they believe that only the passage of "time" heals tsw. And, to moisturize all you want to make yourself comfortable since you can only wait for "time" to pass. What pure unadulterated bullshit! Itsan, you should be ashamed of yourselves! But no, that isn't going to happen is it? You hold to your beliefs like moisturizers cling to your skin. You need to be like a reed in the wind, not like an Oak tree.

In closing, those of you who agree with my conclusions, please link your blog to mine and do whatever you can to help make ALL information available to new tsw sufferers. Put links to my blog and the Japanese conference information on your Facebook. Tell your friends and family. Let's get ALL the information out so people can make truly "informed" decisions!


  1. hi dan. thanks for getting the word out there about MW. I am starting week 7 and still red but way less than when i was using hemp and coconut oil in the beginning of TSW. the spots are still pink and dry, but less swollen and oozy. People need to know to put the vaseline down!Save yourselves from the torture TSW sufferers. Do the research and try it. You will be amazed. Forget "comforting" in the short term. Do what is shown to speed up TSW. DONT USE ANY EMOLLIENTS and see for your self before you shoot it down. Peace to all TSW sufferers and dont be sucked into what the VETS are telling you. Seek knowledge and move on with your life

    1. Hi Ingrid, you are very welcome! Good to hear you are doing well with it. Yes, the "vets" seem to have it all wrong don't they? I am hoping they will change what they are telling new tsw sufferers, but don't have much faith that they will, just based on my past experience with them. I think it will take many more people doing MW to finally get these people to see the light. At a minimum, they should encourage people to not use moisturizers that have man made chemicals in them.

      When I was a member, people were being told to use whatever made one comfortable. I saw so many people using a variety of moisturizers that had skin barrier destroyers in them it made me very sad. Makes me ill to think about it. I still try and tell people who have been in tsw a long time but seem to be recovering slow, why I think they are recovering slow, some are listening and rethinking it, and some are still very resistant. I have kind of given up on the ones who have been in tsw for a long time due to the resistance, and want to get to the new ones before they get off on the wrong track and end up just like the ones who are still struggling after so long.

      So, all of you MW believers out there, please post your experiences so we can effect positive changes. We really need to get ALL of the information and opinions out there, and give new people to tsw the advantage of making better informed decisions for themselves.

  2. Hi - just thought I should throw this out there,

    Skin of rose - did moisturiser wothdrawl and 23 months in isn't healed

    Jake - used litres and litres of moisturiser according to blog - healed in 13 months. Geanna used moisturiser 14 months healed, Rochdale same 14 months, nina 14 months

    People are so different - it could help some and also couldn't make the blindest bit of difference to others

    I believe the forum should be more open - some things are obv nonsense and people shouldn't waste their money on them - and to be fair things like vitamin Ivs cost thousands - desperate people shouldn't be encouraged to use them, however things like diet and moisturiser wothdrawl are more subjective and should be allowed to be discussed. To be honest though you have opinions that it speeds it up but you don't have any more fact to prove it that the vets do to disprove it - if everyone was more open and stopped taking a I'm right your wrong approach it would be easier to collect evidence. Also there is a way of managing people i think if you had been more careful how you expressed your views you probably wouldn't have been banned ! Whatever you say these people have been in tsw for months and have tried many many things and this doesn't mean at all they are right on every issue and they have perhaps forgotten how hard it is in the beginning but even still you may feel differently when you have been in it that long!

    It would be great to see how moisturiser wothdrawl pans out for you - please keep your blog updated! Dnt be disheartened about the forum it is natural for people to have a difference of opinions on these subjects, as with all illnesses some people put a lot of faith in the natural route and some don't! This blog if you actually do recover faster with mw could be good evidence for the future tsw sufferers! Xx

    1. Hi Anonymous, thank you for your input, I truly appreciate it. You make some good points and I want to address them all, but please don't view it as me defending my point of view, but rather a friendly debate or conversation. Something that is much needed, and a positive thing to do. There are two basic issues here, whether tsw can be sped up and whether one should moisturize during tsw.

      Most tsw cases are from people getting addicted to ts and then quitting using it. Skin of Rose seems to be an unusual case where she had a bad rash appear in adulthood out of nowhere, not from ts use, and from reading her first post it is difficult to nail down exactly how long she has been moisturizer and ts free. She mentioned she went back to moisturizers once and also used makeup several times. The Japanese doctors have noted that people will commonly rebound after clearing tsw if one goes back to using moisturizers. Is it possible her tsw won't work as her problem wasn't initially caused by ts? I don't know. I haven't read the history's on the others you mentioned but will. My first thought is they must not have used a very potent ts for very long. But, that is just my initial thought, so I can't really comment until I read further.

      I was thinking just last night about all this and was thinking how MW greatly helps alleviate the tsw symptoms and allows the skin to heal faster. But, MW likely doesn't actually speed up tsw in and by itself. I think MW is just one contributing factor in speedier healing, and when combined with a positive attitude, a belief that one will heal quicker, a supportive diet, etc., healing does happen faster then it would by doing the opposite. It all boils down to common sense for me. Supporting the body allows one to heal quicker than it would have by not supporting it. Again, don't forget about the placebo effect as well.

      You are correct, I don't have any facts to back my views of faster healing, but the vets don't have facts to back up their views that nothing can speed up tsw either. I have merely tried to make the point that it is much better to say something to the effect like "we don't know for sure yet", because of the power of the mind, the placebo effect, and the fact that supporting the body via diet and other means does help speed all healing. That is a fact and is indisputable. Saying nothing can speed up tsw mostly breeds despair, hopelessness, and a sense of powerlessness in people. One only needs to read a couple tsw blogs to see this. It is very apparent. Saying "we don't know" or "there is no real data to support either theory" would be so much better. That would be so much more helpful to people so they can have a positive outlook, hope, and a feeling of self empowerment. We all experiment regardless, so why take away their hope and their feeling of being in control? What good can come from that?

      The "people are different" argument only goes so far, because generally, we really aren't that different. We all have the same or similar symptoms and bodies, and we all react to various treatments in the same way, just like we all have nearly the same reaction to long term ts use. We all react the same way to good and bad diets and we all heal faster or slower depending on our beliefs and attitudes. Sure there are subtle differences, but we are mostly the same. Part one.

    2. I agree that spending tons of money on expensive things like vitamin iv's and expensive spa trips can be a waste of time and money. But, if one has the time and money and believes it will help them, maybe it's not such a bad thing. Maybe it actually helps those particular people because they believe it will. Maybe it won't help some. It should be their choice and they should have as much information as possible in making these choices. However, I would never encourage these types of things as I believe the mind plays the largest role in healing. Much more so than any diet or vitamin supplements do. I would only encourage people to do what they can within reason. The mind is the most important factor in health and this is hardly ever discussed. It is difficult to discuss anything outside of what the vets believe. Therein lies the main problems with the forum in my view.

      I only take the "I'm right" approach when my views repeatedly fall on deaf ears, at which time I feel I have no other choice other than keeping my mouth shut. I can't in good conscious keep my mouth shut when I believe the majority of people seeking information on tsw are led to believe they should moisturize, after seeing the effects moisturizing has on tsw's, and my understanding of how they impair the skin's ability to heal. Practically every single person who has taken the no moisturizer route has reported excellent results in their symptoms, including Skin of Rose.

      I know there are better ways to mange people and I am the first to admit I lack finesse, but regardless of how I come off, this is not a personality contest. If it were I would definitely lose. We should be looking at the evidence and not be concerned about individual character flaws.

      I care most about how everyone is told tsw CAN NOT be sped up by the the vets. The word "can't" isn't part of my mindset and never has been. I have successfully done many things in life that I was told I couldn't do. I am also very concerned about how the vets tell people to moisturize when it is very apparent that moisturizing causes much more suffering than not moisturizing does. I know there are lots of examples of people healing via using moisturizers. Comparatively, there are few that have done tsw without using moisturizers, so that argument is not a good one at all in my opinion. I believe these same people could have done it in a much more comfortable way. The evidence on this is overwhelming. Not necessarily could have healed faster, but certainly in a much more comfortable way. Most all the vets used moisturizers during their tsw. I would say probably 95% of all vets did. So, pointing out one or two that didn't isn't a good argument. If I am not correct on that estimate I would like to know because this is something I have wanted to know for a long time now. I estimate 95% from what I have seen in the forum and on blogs but not really sure if my estimate is too high or too low.

      There is no need to wait and see how MW pans out for me because it has already panned out :-). I improved drastically after MW and only did it due to the negative effects moisturizers were having on my skin. It is the same effects for everyone, whether people want to admit it or not. I don't mean to sound so, however I sound, but I am beside myself as to how people are not understanding the bad effects of moisturizing during tsw. There is plenty of evidence that shows moisturizing is bad even for healthy skin. Part two.

    3. I do have a difficult time expressing myself, that's why my posts are always too long :(. I just do the best I can with what I got :-). I can't help but be disheartened about the forum because I was treated like an imbecile from day one only because I didn't "fall into place". I didn't conform. I have always been a non-conformer all my life. It has it's good effects and it's bad effects. The vets seem to have some kind of superiority complex going on and act as though anyone that is new to tsw knows nothing about healing from tsa. I understand that it is natural for people to have differences of opinion, but I don't understand why the vets aren't open to discussing the differences of opinion, and choose instead to try and discredit people with differing opinions other than their own. I also don't understand why they refuse to see the obvious. That is very disheartening to me also, because so many look to these vets for information and I believe they are controlling what information is available. And, what information they do allow people to see is mostly information that supports their own beliefs.

      Again, thank you for posting. I hope we can keep this conversation going. I am always the first to admit when I'm wrong and am not afraid to do that if one can convince me. But then again, it's really not about who is wrong or right, it's all about information. It is my intention to show MW is the best way to go for alleviating the symptoms of tsw, and to show that tsw can be sped up via various methods. I doubt it can be sped up in any significant way, but sped up none the less. And, that is totally different from believing tsw can not be sped up. And it has a completely different effect. I know my experience will not be proof of anything but when enough experiences are put together we will have a much clearer picture eventually.

      I apologize if my reply sounds somewhat argumentative as that is not my intention. It's difficult to debate issues and not sound like you are arguing. One last thing, because I have experienced MW effects on tsw firsthand, when I read people's blogs that have been in tsw for over a year and look at their pictures, I can clearly see how the moisturizers are keeping their skin from healing. They all look like my skin looked when I was moisturizing in the beginning. It makes me sad to see these people prolonging their suffering when they could easily avoid it. But trying to get them to understand the positive effects of MW is nearly impossible due to the credibility the vets have, and due to their own views on moisturizing. People look to the vets for answers and are getting all the wrong answers. It's not that the vets are wrong, it's just that their views are incorrect, my opinion of course. With so many people relying on them I feel it is extremely important that they adjust their collective views accordingly as more and more information becomes available to them. They have been way too slow to adjust I think and that is very important because new tsw's are arriving daily and they take the vets advice or opinions over everyone else for good reason. They assume like I did that the vets know more than non vets. Wrong assumption. As wrong as assuming doctors know best. Common sense is the best thing to rely on in most cases. And as much information as possible of course. Thanks again, Dan

    4. Anonymous, I reread your post today and I want to make a couple other comments. You said "To be honest though you have opinions that it speeds it up but you don't have any more fact to prove it that the vets do to disprove it - if everyone was more open and stopped taking a I'm right your wrong approach it would be easier to collect evidence."

      I couldn't agree more, the key word here is "everyone". That is exactly what I've been trying to get across. There are no real facts either way on speedier healing so maybe, just maybe, they should stop telling people who are just starting tsw that tsw can't be sped up. Doing so seems extremely counter productive to me, especially considering the placebo effect, and good old fashioned common sense.

      You also said "People are so different - it could help some and also couldn't make the blindest bit of difference to others". I have to disagree and here is why. Yes we are different in many aspects and healing times can vary widely depending on various factors such as age, strength and length of time we used ts, one's health, etc. There are thousands of differences so it's very difficult to try and compare. But, we all react to various foods in similar ways, we all react to the sun in similar ways, ts, most drugs, you name it. So goes moisturizers. We all react to moisturizers in similar ways. Moisturizers are not good for healthy skin despite what we have been brainwashed to believe. And moisturizing during tsw is even worse. It prolongs healing.

      When I see photos like tomatoskingirl's more recent pics of her hands, who is over a year into tsw and still has red skin splits, I can clearly see those are still there ONLY because she has used moisturizers throughout the process. Her skin splits are the same skin splits that I battled in my first 4 months. I am all too familiar with them and managed to turn my "hamburger hands" into "skin split free hands" in just 3 months. Actually, I should say one month because I used moisturizers in my first two months. Time and money wasted and much pain endured. I only stopped moisturizing because it became clear to me despite what I had heard, that they were keeping my skin from healing.

      I see the same thing with many other pics I've seen on other tsw people as well. Every time I read to see if they are using moisturizers I discover they are. It makes feel very sad to see this with these younger people who don't know any better. They don't have the experience and wisdom of someone who is my age. They grew up in a different world. That's a whole book so I won't go into it.

      Nearly everyone who has done tsw without moisturizers has said they are seeing the same positive results as I had.

      People, please speak up if you did, or are doing tsw via not using moisturizers. I want to hear from people who have actually done it for longer than 4 weeks, and decided to go back, if the moisturizing argument is to hold any water with me. Just because people who have completed tsw using while using moisturizers is not very good evidence that it is the way to go when so much evidence shows otherwise.

    5. Anonymous said: "Skin of rose - did moisturiser wothdrawl and 23 months in isn't healed."

      I'm sorry Anonymous but that is not entirely correct. Here are excerpts from Skin of Rose blog:

      Sunday, 1 July 2012
      My condition became the worst from worse. My skin felt so tight I couldn't move my head at all. But after a month or so, my skin became relatively soft and started healing. I was quite surprised how quickly you can get used to a non-moisturiser lifestyle. I cannot actually compare if moisturiser withdrawal has quickened the steroid withdrawal process or not, but my skin did heal up after 3 months.

      This time of the rebound period which I am into my 8 month, because it's taking a lot longer to heal than usual, for a change I applied some moisturiser on my face for several days. I didn't like the feel of it to start with. Second of all, I noticed that because moisturiser softened my new layer of skin, my scratching could easily ruined it

      Monday, 20 May 2013
      So I bought Johnson&Johnson Baby Powder and put it on my entire face. Hm. It made my skin a little whiter (obviously) and covered some of my pigmented skin. I would happily use it rather than foundation for now.

      Friday, 7 June 2013
      I have been using the Hyaluronic Acid Lotion for my face and neck since 11th April 2013 - nearly 2 months so far.

      Saturday, 27 July 2013
      I feel like I'm 90% healed. TSW doesn't interfere with my life any longer. I even wore a full-makeup yesterday and didn't irritate my skin. However, I still get itchness, eye mucus, wrinkles and pink patches so there is still room for recovery.

      Another product is Burt's Bees Tinted Lip Balm. I just bought one from waitrose this morning, and am so happy with the result. It's 100% natural and gives you nice shades of color on your lips. I have pale lips so desperately needed something like this. It's a lip balm so it doesn't irritate my lips like other lipsticks do. It moisturises lips nicely.

      Wednesday, 28 August 2013
      My skin is looking normal and can even tolerate occasional make-ups.

      Tuesday, 29 October 2013
      I applied full make-up several times in September and I think that was a bit too early. I got dry red patches on my face and that reminded me of the restart of TSW so I panicked. After I stopped using base make-up and a soap on my face, luckily it's calming down now.

  3. I came to the same conclusion as you about ITSAN. While I appreciate the fact it's getting word out about steroid withdrawal, those operating it hold a very tight hold on any opinions expressed. It felt strangely reminiscent of living in Eastern Europe under communism! And yes the vets follow medical opinions such as dr Rap. that Vaseline is good and only time heals. I found it ironic that those poisoned by the medical system put so much weight into trusting the opinions of medical doctors. I wasn't banned but happily left after being scolded again and again for saying we do not know that nothing chat speed this up.

    Funnily enough this is my third full tsw in twenty years. First one in 1993. I am by any definition a vet. But my opinions were best left to myself. Leaving ITSAN was a relief.

    1. I too appreciate what Itsan is trying to do but discovered the exact same thing. They seem to be well meaning people but they also appear to display a true lack of understanding even the most basics of healing. It is very ironic, and seems very counter productive and counter intuitive. They are in a position of huge responsibility because of the way they hold themselves out to people who are looking for answers to their tsa.

      Itsan rules state you can not contact them in any attempt at changing policy. I donated money to them, spent countless hours detailing a better way to go through tsw on their forum in real time, and I can't make suggestions to them on policy that I feel is seriously flawed?? Give me a break!

      Itsan needs people who have knowledge on different healing methods, and these are the very people they have a tendency to drive off. They think that tsw is somehow some extraordinarily different thing that is just so difficult to understand that we all should just sit and wait it out. What a self defeating ideology. They express their own views on tsw and hide others views from the members if they aren't in line with their own "collective" experiences. This causes a lot of problems. For one, it caused me to use moisturizers for the first two months of my tsw because I had believed what these "vets" were saying. I take responsibility for my decisions, but if it hadn't been for the Itsan "vets" saying that is the most comfortable way to do tsw, I would never had done it that way. I definitely could have benefited much more, and been better equipped to make more informed decisions, if I had heard ALL points of views there, such as yours and others. So, if this could happen to me, someone who is pretty well educated on the subject of healing, just think of the effects it has on everyone else that ends up there. The place reminds me of a hospital and how the cafeteria is full of foods with chemicals that cause disease.

      Unfortunately, Itsan's forum rules and guidelines create an environment such that people are afraid to say what's on their minds due to fear of being ridiculed and made to look like a fool. The fear of being outright banned is enough to scare anyone because nobody wants to be outcast from everyone else while going through tsw. Most doctors don't want to speak out on tsa due to fear of being outcast from their "group" as well. If Itsan thinks they are going to get the medical community and any doctors behind them they are being very naive.

      jsan, you are a true "vet" in every sense of the word. You have more experience with tsw than anyone I have ever heard about, and you understand how to deal with tsw in the most effective way. Itsan needs people like you. Or, I guess I should say the members of Itsan need "vets" like yourself. Maybe the so called "vets" on Itsan will understand after enough people do tsw via no moisturizers, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Unfortunately, not many are taking that route because of the Itsan vets views on the subject.

      In the meantime, I intend to do whatever I can to reach out to people new to tsw as early as possible, and share what I know about healing with them.

  4. Dan, I really appreciate this entry. I couldn't agree with you more and had expressed the same opinions on the ITSAN forum sometime around July.

    I expressed that it is potentially damaging to tell a new tsw sufferer that a) nothing works but time b) enjoy yourself and eat whatever you want c) slather on Vaseline.

    We do not know that nothing speeds it up, moisturizer addiction is very real and diet can potentially have more of an impact on healing aside from obvious "allergies."

    I have had a comparatively smooth withdrawal and yes I refused to moisturize from the get go. My easy withdrawal was not taken seriously because apparently we are all different and I was just lucky, or genetically blessed or just didn't use much. Well I used huge quantities all over my face and body (something I am very embarrassed about).

    Unlike other warriors I did not get skin infections (no moisturizing and just some tea tree and colloidal silver on small cuts). I didn't swell up (I drank large quantities of natural diuretics, and walked every single day even in extreme discomfort).

    I temporarily ruined my skin by suddenly slathering on Shea butter after my hot yoga. I quickly stopped that.

    Here I am now at 7 months looking very normal aside from my stubborn leathery hands, which look good compared to most tsw moisturizing individuals.

    I do think the "vets" treat the board like a damaged child that needs to be protected and coddled from any "misleading" information. The irony being that they fail to see how that in itself is misleading.

    As an aside I know of a mother who took her daughter with eczema and possibly tsw (she had stopped using it), to turkey for treatment. The first thing the dermatologist there told her was to stop moisturizing. Her little daughter writhed in agony for a couple of days and within the week was playing happily outside unbandaged and smooth all over.

    Even before tsw I never ever moisturizer my body. I noticed that when I did for a special treat, even all natural products, my skin would get drier. It's a completely well known phenomena where the body simply stops producing oil in response to external moisture. It's so basic my hairdresser knows it.

    Keep spreading the word.

    My web album: https://picasaweb.google.com/115485796560409789498/TSWMarch2013AndOn?authkey=Gv1sRgCM2T7P751f2CtwE

  5. jsan, this is so ironic. I wish Itsan's vets would read these posts. We're two people thousands of miles apart on different continents who have used their own logic and common sense to figure out what thousands of doctors and Itsan's vets haven't yet figured out. We must be genius huh?

    Every single thing you said in your post is right on target. Interesting, I also used Shea butter after taking the MW route successfully, and I lasted about 2 hours before I washed my hands with soap and took a long dead sea salt bath to wash it out. I made the same mistake again a few weeks later by listening to my new doctor and trying Hemp oil. That time my skin was in a little stronger condition and I didn't have to go through the whole process again, but did go into a flare that lasted a couple weeks.

    You said...

    "It's a completely well known phenomena where the body simply stops producing oil in response to external moisture. It's so basic my hairdresser knows it."

    That is a very important statement my friend! It needs to be heard loud and clear! It is becoming clearer now why so many people have such bad rebounds during tsw.

  6. I actually felt good at first with the Shea butter but noticed an addiction very quickly. Where I'd emerge from the bath or shower and unless I put it on immediatelly my skin would seize up. And a few weeks of this around month six and I was needing to apply it constantly through the day. Hubby then said enough, you have to stop moisturizing. In a matter of days my skin was fine. I get up and get on with my day, nothing on, my skin is fine. Bathe, dry off, my skin is fine.

  7. I loved the feel and consistency of Shea butter but found after a couple weeks my skin was getting way too itchy from it. I was shredding my raw skin when I scratched, which is unavoidable with an itch that intense. And again, I noticed that my open wounds were being kept from healing by keeping my skin covered with moisturizers. When I stopped moisturizing, my skin wounds healed fast and my comfort level drastically changed for the better.

  8. I agree, all wounds, scratches etc do a marvelous job of healing when left alone. Got talking to a girl at my health food store today and she said that a lot of people who moisturize are feeding fungal infections especially around the belly and back! Exactly what happened to me. I have to wonder how many of the long term sufferers are also battling a yeast or fungal infection, moisturizer addiction and of course tsw.

  9. That's interesting. I had a fungus show up on my little finger nail and the one next to it on my right hand. The fungus showed up after my first few weeks of moisturizing, now I understand why. It started deforming the nails early on but stopped getting progressively worse when I stopped moisturizing. I've been treating it with undiluted Tera Tree oil but not daily as the stuff really dries out the skin around the nails. About every other day. It seems to be slowly improving. If that doesn't get it I'll soak the ends of those fingers in Bragg's apple cider vinegar every day until it's gone.

  10. Colloidal silver ointment. Kills fungus where tea tree doesn't. Try it!

    1. Hi jsan, did you dilute the Tea Tree oil when you used it for skin splits or oozng spots? I did it straight when I used it early on, but then started diluting it with water and found it to be just as effective, and it doesn't have such a drying effect on the skin around the splits I was applying it to. I only use it straight now on splits if they are tiny ones. I personally think it best straight if using on small spots, and diluted if using on larger areas. What say you?

  11. I accidentally deleted a thread of comments messing around with google plus this morning, so I am just going to post the whole thread right here.

    Yesterday 9:59 AM

    This is an excerpt from the daily mail UK site I found on the web.

    "Plastic surgeon Chris Inglefield explains that moisturizer is so effective, skin forgets how to soften itself. Normal, well-functioning skin keeps itself moist by producing 'natural moisturizing factors' (NMFs). How many of these it produces depends on its environment.

    So if you go somewhere dry on holiday, your skin will produce more NMFs. But if you cover your skin in moisturizer, the NMFs presume everything is fine and become idle. If your skin is healthy, it can look after itself,' says Mr Inglefield. 'Moisturizer creates a clingfilm-like barrier, which making it feel soft by stopping moisture escaping from its lower layers.

    But it also blocks the skin's natural repair mechanism. So if you stop using it, your skin feels terribly dry.' So, using moisturizer traps your skin into a vicious cycle. Julie Cichocki, managing director of Karin Herzog - the natural skincare range favored by the Duchess of Cambridge - says: 'Women have been conditioned to use moisturize, but it doesn't help their skin. We get asked every day by customers which moisturizer they should use from our range, and we tell them to forget it."

    Yesterday 12:25 PM
    I posted that dailymail link on ITSAN about six months ago. Some people tried to stop moisturizing after that discussion but as far as I know everyone gave up.

    Yesterday 12:40 PM
    Yeah, I think people give up too soon without ever giving it a chance. Few who tried it unsuccessfully will say exactly how many days they tried MW. That is pretty revealing in itself. It's not really that difficult, but can be when you are doing it on your own without the knowledge we have been sharing. You must have left the forum right when I became a member because I don't remember seeing your posts, and if I had of , it would have helped me a lot in my first attempt. It would have saved me from moisturizing for the first two months as well. I became a member on July 16th.

  12. Dan
    Yesterday 12:48 PM
    I forgot to add, I was banned on about October 14th, so I lasted 3 months there. I just couldn't stand to see all the new people coming into the forum being told what I felt was information that actually causes more suffering than it does reduce suffering. But, I guess I've already said that so I'm just repeating myself now...I hope they let me know if they change their "collective" opinions on moisturizer use, and speedier healing. They certainly need to but I'm not holding my breath. I'll be posting new threads soon on how to heal faster by using the mind.

    Yesterday 4:08 PM
    I am sorry I wasn't able to help you. I actually have a wealth of experience with tsw given my history. From what to put on it or not put on it lol, to the mental aspects. But I was so appalled by the tone and attitude of that site that I deleted every single entry I had ever made before I left.

    Yesterday 6:15 PM
    That's OK. I always kind of enjoyed the challenge of figuring things out for myself anyway. I was considering opening a forum later down the road if I can get enough of a following on my blog. I have a good domain name tied up, topicalsteroidfree.com (and others too), and think it would be nice to have an alternative forum for people to freely share their information and experiences on subjects such as healing, the power of the mind in healing, diet & nutrition, Eastern medicine, medical malpractice, chemicals in moisturizers, cosmetics, foods, etc. A forum where people could freely discuss the things both you and I have learned, so people starting their own topical steroid withdrawal will have key information they need to get through it in the most comfortable way possible.

    A vibrant community of people who could engage others in conversations about anything they want even if it's off subject.

    It might take a year before enough people discover and understand the information in this blog but who knows. All I know is there are millions of people that will be doing tsw whether they want to or not, and they will need the right information. I want to expose the truth about topical steroids and the doctors who prescribe them as well. If a year goes by and there isn't enough support for this, I'll have no choice but to move on and forget about trying to help people. One can only try so much before they give up. You can lead a horse to water but...

    Yesterday 6:59 PM
    Your page has really cheered me up. It's a breath of fresh air and a relief after the cloying pity party of the other site. I agree about the mental component. And I also think some people get very bogged down in negativity. This thing will be over, the time will pass, so I try to be positive, active and don't dwell on this.

    Yesterday 11:17 PM
    Thanks, I'm happy to hear that :). Once again, I agree with everything you said.

    Ingrid Allen
    6:32 AM
    Ditto both of you. Thanks for thinking out of the box! Namaste everyone and I'm glad I stopped moisturizing after a month of TSW.

    1. Ingrid, thanks for making me look up that word lol. Namaste: The gesture Namaste represents the belief that there is a Divine spark within each of us that is located in the heart chakra. The gesture is an acknowledgment of the soul in one by the soul in another. Nama means bow, as means I, and te means you. Therefore, namaste literally means "bow me you" or "I bow to you." Ditto Ingrid. Thanks.

  13. Hi Dan,

    I was too banned by the forum mods for advocacy of information flow. It is disappointing to say the least. Time to focus on writing more quality information to share!

    1. Hi Leslie,

      Sorry to hear that. I know how it feels. Please share your tsa/tsw experience. I would love to hear what your history of usage is and how your tsw is going. How you are dealing with the symptoms etc.!

    2. It's me viavictus =)
      You have me in your blog list

    3. Leslie, I'm so sorry! I didn't connect the dots. Now I know who you are! Just read your recent posts. Very interesting and well written! I hope everyone reads your post on ITSAN and the one you wrote on moisturizers. Here s a link to your blog for others here to see what you recently wrote.


  14. Incredible. What exactly are their motives??

    1. Whose motives? If you are referring to ITSAN, I think their motives for banning people are to keep only their beliefs heard because they view their forum mainly as an emotional support forum, rather than an informational support forum. Anyone that offers information that conflicts with what they believe isn't treated very well in my experience.

      I intend to turn this blog into an "alternative" forum where people who want to freely discuss ideas and experiences can do so without fear of being belittled, offended, intimidated, rejected, or banned :-)

    2. I've been thinking about it. It may be a longshot but this are my thoughts based on why they banned my topics on not moisturizing, and the many forms of censorship they do.

      ITSAN is founded with Dr Rapaport, someone who has done studies on TSA.

      The value of ITSAN (fronted as a charity) is a direct marketing tool for Dr Rapaport. Everyone will know about him as the specialist in this niche (well, he is) and people will go to him for treatment. He stands to earn in consultation, in the moisturizers he prescribe. The vets are long time proponents of Dr Rapaport. God knows what they gain through this.

      It is the classic case of "creating a demand" for Dr Rapaport. Who is this guy before the idea of TSA popped out. It is politics and all the vets remaining, as well as the people supporting the forums are all part of this 'created' demand.

      I hope for the sake of ITSAN members I'm wrong.

    3. Leslie,
      You hit the nail on the head my friend. Dr. Rapaport founded ITSAN along with Kelly, and although ITSAN announced a separation between the two a couple months ago, I have to wonder 1. Have they reconciled their differences and are back together again? 2. Is ITSAN running scared of the medical establishment in general out of fear, or out of a naive idea that they will get doctors to come around to accepting tsa/tsw as a problem.

      I'm not really sure what the problem is but am sure of the results. The results are what you pointed out so well in your post. I'm sorry you got banned too. Our experiences with ITSAN are nearly identical. Everyone, please read Leslie's recent posts on his blog.


  15. Well stated Dan:
    ITSAN, I think their motives for banning people are to keep only their beliefs heard because they view their forum mainly as an emotional support forum, rather than an informational support forum.

    1. Thanks jsan, it looks like Leslie just got banned for the exact same reasons I was. I didn't want my blog to be an ITSAN bashing blog and I have even edited a couple of my posts to back off on my own ITSAN bashing. However, after seeing what happened to Leslie, knowing yours and others experiences there, and the fact that ITSAN continues to run their forum in the way they do, I am having second thoughts.

      ITSAN needs to wake up and smell the coffee, or they will eventually discredit themselves completely and lose their audience. Looks like they are doing a good job already at losing their audience.

      ITSAN has a moral responsibility to all the new tsa people who find their site and join. These people are usually in a desperate emotional state by the time they discover ITSAN's site, and they need information. ITSAN holds itself out as a support forum for these people. Here is an excerpt from ITSAN's own mission statement:

      "ITSAN is devoted to providing resources to help eczema patients withdraw from their topical steroid medication to cure their addiction. Each passing day the organization works to fulfill the hope, of having a healthy and itch-free life, for thousands of eczema sufferers worldwide."

      I find this mission statement to be highly inconsistent with how they operate.

      It is my understanding that most non profit organizations have a legal duty to allow their financial contributors to express their concerns in what the organization does. I could be wrong about that but do remember reading something to that effect on the web a couple weeks ago.

      I just found this info on the web with a quick search.

      "Protecting the public: organizations have a duty of care to protect the public from injury, loss or damage caused by the organisation’s activities.

      The main legal responsibilities of a nonprofit board are often summarized in the "three Ds":

      Duty of care: Board members are expected to actively participate in organizational planning and decision-making and to make sound and informed judgments.

      Duty of loyalty: When acting on behalf of the organization, board members must put the interests of the nonprofit before any personal or professional concerns and avoid potential conflicts of interest.

      Duty of obedience: Board members must ensure that the organization complies with all applicable federal, state, and local laws and regulations, and that it remains committed to its established mission."

      So, the questions I now have, is ITSAN acting against it's own mission statement? Is this non profit organization breaking laws? Do they have a duty to allow donors to express their views? Do they meet the guidelines above?

      I really don't know the answers to these questions as I am not a lawyer, but I do know that the ITSAN forum is purposely keeping information from it's members via a variety of ways, and this must stop if ITSAN intends to follow it's own mission statement.

    2. Jsan and Dan,

      If their intention is just an emotional support forum, then clearly their organisation mission is not aligned to what is being practiced by their staff volunteer moderators. Overtime, the value of the ITSAN will show itself.

      They have kicked out many vets and people who have been actively contributing, and what is left remaining in their forums are unfortunate people subjected to the misinformation and lack of information being fed to them.

      In a way they are doing a good job, but they could have been better.

      As to whether they have broken legal responsibilities, more hard evidence is required other than banning a few forum members.

    3. I have no axe to grind with itsan legally. I have zero interest in suing them or seeing them sued by anyone else, as I know they are trying to help get the word out about tsa/tsw to the best of their abilities, and many of the vets there are well meaning people.

      However, I am very concerned for the thousands of people who read their forum and believe what they read. It's not just us current people, it's also the millions yet to come. I truly believe the vets there are contributing to a lot of suffering with their uninformed and misguided beliefs when it comes to healing from topical steroid addiction.

      I want to start a forum where tsa/tsw people can access the correct information. At least where they can hear all views from all people, and not just the views of a small handful of people. It is time for an alternative forum. Another support forum can be very beneficial considering how ITSAN "controls" what is seen on their forum.

  16. Leslie,
    I wouldn't hold your breath on whether itsan will allow you back or not. When they banned me I thought there was a good chance of it being temporary, but after waiting for about three weeks it dawned on me that wasn't going to happen. One way to tell is when you go to the site and if it says "Sorry Guest, you are banned from using this forum! This ban is not set to expire." you are probably not going to be allowed back.

    It's that second sentence "This ban is not set to expire.". Does it read that way when you go there? If so, then you will know. I would imagine when they ban people they can use the option of the ban being set to expire in 30 days or less if they have any plans to allow them back.

    1. Couldn't care less. Good to have the ban lifted, if not life goes on.
      Working on my site now. I also have intentions of taking my site, once ready, to a full hosted domain and if there is a demand, a hosted forum too. We may work something out on this potential project in due time

    2. That sounds very interesting! I know I can't do a good forum all by myself and continue to make a living. One advantage I have is I work out of my home and have plenty of opportunity to monitor and respond to posts almost immediately. Also, my work only takes up a couple hours of my time per day, depending on how much I want to work. I hope we can do it together if possible. I have steroidfree.com tied up but there might be better names to use.

  17. I just read itsans last newsletter and even though good ole Dr. Rap has split from them they are still kissing his behind. One has to wonder why that is? According to itsan he has bad mouthed them and he just wanted to make money off of the itsan site. They say "He is a medical pioneer and his approach works. We are extremely grateful for his research."

    The ironic thing here is, as far as I can see, he pioneered nothing more than what I had figured out on my own when I concluded ts weren't working anymore and I told my doctor I was never going to use them again. I came to to the same conclusions on cessation of the drug before I ever saw his video, or found itsan on the internet.

    His approach does work but it is not as effective compared to the approach I have pioneered. I have to wonder why itsan isn't extremely grateful to me for my research? My approach works better but they banned me from their site. Hmmm....very interesting indeed.

    I can only speculate about why itsan values Dr. Rap so highly. My main thought is they naively think if they can keep a genuine accredited medical doctor on their side it will give them credibility in the eyes of the rest of the medical community. Makes sense but it is extremely naive. The medical community makes far too much money off of ts and the repeated office visits associated with prolonged use of ts. I personally believe their site will eventually be shut down by the FDA or some other government agency who is under heavy influence by the medical establishment. My blog as well. Just wait and see.

    Several years ago I watched multiple sites on the web get shut down because they were espousing alternative ways of healing such as herbs and the like. Big Pharma likes the billions (possibly trillions?) they make off of drugs and do not want us to have access to things they can not patent and make money off of. Think about it.

    1. Yes it is possible.

      When your site gets too big, reaches critical mass, big pharma can simply buy you over. Some closed due to lobbying, giving u cash to keep you quiet. Some do it by force.