Tuesday, November 26, 2013

Moisturizer Withdrawal - ITSAN - And Other Ramblings Rant

All information posted on this web site is the opinion of the author and is provided for educational purposes only. It is not to be construed as medical advice. Only a licensed medical doctor can legally offer medical advice in the United States. Consult the healer of your choice for medical care and advice.

I recently received an invitation from the office of my last dermatologist to be a part of a study on a new drug. My Derm is going to do another research on the efficacy of a new drug on steroid induced eczema, which by the way, he thinks is atopic dermatitis, or eczema. I guess technically he's correct, but he is overlooking what's causing the majority of the symptoms of the atopic dermatitis in the first place. This is the same guy who happens to be a very respected professor (amongst his peers) at an extremely well known hospital, and is considered to be "the" top dermatologist on the west coast of the United States. The same guy that screamed the words, "eczema is a chronic disease!" at me near the top of his voice at my first, last, and final visit with him. His voice still echoes in my head along with my response of "I will never take steroids again!" This is the same guy that told me I would have to be on steroids for the rest of my life. The same "expert" that would not accept my conclusions that topical steroids had caused my current rash, and what he was really looking at on my body was STEROID INDUCED! Not regular eczema! Topical steroid induced eczema you moron!

This man is at the top in his field, at the pinnacle of his career. He spends a lot of his time researching and setting up studies, writing papers, etc., on the efficacy of new steroid drugs that the pharmaceutical companies make, in an effort to try and cure the rash caused by the other steroids the pharmaceutical companies have already made. Pure madness! He must be working for them, not his patients who pay him for medical care. So why do I call him "my" doctor? Shouldn't I refer to him as "the big pharmaceuticals company's doctor?" Or, for short, "Big Pharma's" doctor. He certainly isn't working in my best interest. The ironic thing is, I'm the one that pays for his service, for the drugs, and for the added pain and suffering as a result of "my doctor" really being "Big Pharma's" doctor.

What a nice little biz the medical industry has going. Design drugs to treat symptoms of drugs that mess you up. Then design new drugs to treat the symptoms of the ones that messed you up in the fist place. It's an endless merry go round designed to make more and more money. But at whose expense? They do it with every disease known to man. When was the last time you have heard of an actual cure for a disease. There is no money in cures. However, there are trillions of dollars involved in treating disease symptoms!

Why was he so resistant to what I told him about my body being addicted to topical steroids? Surely, he has seen thousands of cases nearly identical to mine. So, the question remains why. I think most of us can figure out the reasons if we think about it long enough.

Prevention is the key to avoiding most disease, and most disease can be prevented but not cured. Does one cure cancer? Of course not. One can only prevent it, and if one gets it they can treat it's symptoms and try and bring the body back into balance. But you don't actually cure it. You bring the body back to the healthy state it was in before the cancer took hold, so that it can no longer take hold. Yet, there are claims everywhere that cancer can be cured. So many non profit organizations have racked in so much money in the name of "finding a cure" over the decades, it makes my head spin just thinking about it.

We can break a leg by accident. Can we cure broken legs? No, not really.  We can mend or fix them but not really "cure" them. Can one speed up the healing of a broken leg? Probably. I imagine one can slow healing as well. Can one speed healing of withdrawal from drugs?  Or, does it takes an exact set amount of time?

I've been seeing several people have decided to try moisturizer withdrawal and are discovering good results. I am so happy to see this. Elated actually :). I don't know of anyone who has done it and found it to be the wrong way to go. Just a few old vets who tried it for a couple days and never really gave it a chance to work. They still cling to their false beliefs about moisturizing.

See Tracy's recent attack on my character in a different blog. Another obvious attempt to discredit me. The fact that he can't control me and others must be driving him nuts. Maybe he has serious control issues, who knows. For those of you who aren't aware of who Tracy is, he is one of Itsan's biggest cheerleaders on their forum. He is always there to tell all the people new to tsw to not waste their time and money on diet, and just do what makes yourself comfortable. And, to moisturize to your heart's content. Oh, and last but not least, "the only known cure is time". That is his and Itsan's mantra. They all seem to overlook a commonly known phenomenon called "the placebo effect" when it comes to that last erroneous statement.

Yes Tracy, attack all you want. It only makes your true colors show. You have a real talent for insulting and  ridiculing people, and making them appear to be wrong even when they are right. You should work for the Government. Perhaps be a politician.

Here's my "conspiracy theory" for you Itsan cheerleaders! Moisturizing during topical steroid withdrawal makes the symptoms any where from 2-10 times more difficult and uncomfortable to deal with than does not moisturizing. Moisturizing during topical steroid withdrawal prolongs healing of the skin. Put that in your pipe and smoke it you Itsan cheerleaders.

How much freakin evidence do you need!!!

And yes Tracy, Itsan does owe me a public apology. They allowed people like yourself (readers, do not confuse this guy with the very sweet female also named Tracy) to publicly insult and ridicule me and others, and then deleted my posts when I tried to defend myself against the attacks. While you're at it, tell Itsan to feel free to return the $150.00 I donated to their organization. I didn't realize at the time what kind of organization I was supporting, and wholeheartedly regret making that donation. I despise the idea of my money supporting a small group of people who have so much influence over so many ill and distressed people seeking answers, being used in a way that leads people down a path of unnecessary pain and prolonged suffering. Especially when you have been shown over and over again your beliefs on methods of healing from tsw are dead wrong. yes, I'll say it again. Dead wrong! Does that hurt your egos or something? It must be something because I have never seen anyone so resistant to new (and valuable) information like I have seen with you people!


Yes, my dear readers, I know I sound bitter. Who wouldn't? Most people who have been banned from Itsan have had lots of valuable information to contribute. It's people such as these that helped make Itsan the most prominent voice out there on tsa/tsw, so why does Itsan ignore these people? Why is Itsan is so cold and heartless in the way they treat their own supporters who try to express alternative ways of healing, which are all better than what Itsan promoted in the past? Things change. New things are learned. Itsan isn't changing with the times like they should be. Lots of questions here but no answers. Maybe Tracy will come along and throw out some more insults. I somehow doubt it though as he doesn't have the balls to debate an issue on facts. Or, even debate an issue for that matter. He prefers to throw insults and run and hide. Itsan, your mealy minded minions aren't helping, and only making you look worse than you already are. End of rant.


24 comments:

  1. Oh yes, he attacked me on the very last post I ever made. He called himself a protector of ITSAN readers and needed to thwart my attempts to waste their money on intravenous vit c. What he failed to do was to read my post which actually said that I flared horrendously after trying it. No he only looked at the title of my post and went on an absolutely appalling, condescending and downright rude rant. I defended myself and was promptly attacked by Joey and Kelly who I presume also didn't bother to read my initial post.

    I left ITSAN absolutely disguisted. What was a nice surprise was a dozen emails that followed from members both active and silent, all saying they couldn't believe how I had been treated.

    The man has some definite issues. He prides himself on being cured and only coming back to help and protect others out of the goodness of his heart, but my psychologist friend laughed saying he appears to have some very real illusions of grandeur. Nothing like a very distressed audience to lord it over in the name of "protecting." ITSAN is very disfunctional and potentially destructive if you don't inform yourself of other options eg. No moisturizing and the power of placebo effect.

    It's not personal, not against you or me, it's just an unpleasant place to spend too much time in.

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  2. Thank you for your comments, jsan. Well put.

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  3. If it is a well-ran board, there won't be negative comments towards it. There is no smoke without fire. Hope they reflect on it.

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  4. Things are slowly starting to change.....I'm finding many people are now trying moisturizer withdrawal, and nearly ALL of these people are experiencing positive results. Nearly all are reporting their positive findings in their individual blogs. I wish they would all report them here, but I too, get thanked all the time privately.

    Interesting too, how not a single person who has done MW during tsw has even once come onto this blog complaining it has made their tsw symptoms worse. But people who are moisturizing are doing a lot of complaining :(

    On a different note. Happy Thanksgiving everybody!

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  5. Hope you had a good Thanksgiving! We are in Canada and celebrated it last month.

    So my skin is just improving in leaps and bounds. It's been I think almost two months of absolutely no moisturizer or oil on my body. And of course only my fancy serums for face. But my skin is completely back to normal everywhere except my hands/wrists. I'm at 8 months now. Just so excited to be back to going out and relaxing at night. Met friends at a nice cocktail/wine lounge last night and was able to just sit back, roll up my sleeves, drink a couple of glasses of red and have a great night. One of my friends said "you are getting your life back!" She also couldn't get over how soft my skin on my neck and arms was (ha! Yes i let her feel it), she was amazed that I don't moisturize. :))

    Some more nice hiking pics up on my Instagram too today http://instagram.com/itkasan

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    1. Hi jsan, meant to write last night but got too tired and went to bed early. I slept for 9 straight hours! I'm so happy for you and your progress! Seems like you are doing extremely well compared to most people at 8 months. But then, most people prolong their recovery by moisturizing don't they?

      I had my worst flare to date hit me about a week ago. I'm not exactly sure what set it off but have it nailed down to 3 possible things. My skin was darn near completely healed and wham! Next thing I know my small skin split on my finger turns worse and then eczema breaks out on all areas that were healed. In just a matter of a few days my skin went from 90% healed to maybe 40-50%. Lots of pain this time around unlike past flares. And a much worse set back then all past flares.

      I was looking to forward to posting new pics at my 6 month mark and I'm just a few days away from that time. Hopefully my skin will be healed again by then. It stated improving again just in the last couple days and should be back to normal soon.

      jsan, what do you think sets off these flares? I always felt it was related to triggers such as foods, moisturizers, or stress. One thing that happened to me is I somehow got infected on that small cut I had, not sure how. Everything was fine but I started spraying the sovereign silver on my hands, quit smoking cigarettes after 40 years, and did get stressed out when Tracy attacked me. I think it was a combination of stress that did me in but not sure.

      Within about 3 days of my flare I noticed my left hand was swollen and warm as though I had an infection. So, I called in a script of antibiotics and everything is calming down after being on them for two days now. The skin is healing again. I had to go back to doing daily dead sea salt baths and just back to my basics. The baths and nothing else other than a spot of tea tree oil here and there.

      I had extensive blood work done a couple weeks ago and it showed very high Immunoglobulin E, Total which my doctor says it means I am highly allergic to something. She doesn't get the connection with the ts and that marker. It really means that my body hasn't recovered from the ts damage yet (my interpretation). I imagine when my body is fully recovered that particular blood marker will normalize to a great extent. Anybody else follow this marker in their own blood work?

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    2. I forgot to add, even with the worst flare I've ever had, it has been a breeze to deal with. I wholeheartedly believe that is because I don't moisturize. My skin recovered from my last flares within a week, and even though this one was much worse, it appears I will be back to the way I was within another week, maybe two at most. Either way, not moisturizing has made my whole recovery 100 times easier then it was going when I moisturized.

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  6. I'm sorry to hear that Dan. I think it's stress. My husband has noticed if I exercise too hard (heavy weights or a very strenuous hike), have an emotional upset or sleep badly I flared hard and fast. That's different from the all over annoying itch that dairy and gluten give me.

    I agree MW makes it all a lot easier when it does happen.

    Forgot to mention that one of the friends at dinner is a lifelong topical steroid user. She said when she is stressed her TS stops working for her. She had also researched TSW and I loved her reaction: OmG you look incredible for 8months! That's about half the time for the average person!

    Made my night.

    Hang in there!!!

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    1. Thanks jsan. I should know better. My past studies in spirituality (becoming enlightened) teach that one needs to accept things as they are and not try to force change on the world. I realized from the very beginning of my recovery that I was sacrificing my own ability to heal as fast as possible by involving myself in what others are doing. But, after seeing the effects ITSAN has on new members, and because of the way I was treated by ITSAN, I just couldn't stay silent.

      ITSAN really pissed me off with the way they banned me and cut me off from the "group". They could have been a lot more understanding and given my concerns a lot more consideration. They could have made the ban temporary. I just found it to be an extremely cruel way to treat someone who supported them financially and spent so much time educating them on better ways to heal from tsw. Not the kind of thanks I expected that's for sure.

      I need to let it go and live and let live. Get back to what I learned and know to be the best thing for me. After today's post I did on ITSAN and moisturizing, I won't be making any further attempts at helping them or anyone else unless asked for my help. I don't expect to be asked so I'll just post on a few subjects on healing over the coming weeks and post my progress as well. I imagine after I'm healed here in a few more weeks I'll be done posting for good.

      I think I've made somewhat of a difference and that's all I should expect. I sincerely do hope that someone opens an alternative forum soon for tsa/tsw people to learn from. It's a pity to see these people get off on the wrong track because ITSAN is currently the only forum for people starting tsw, and they are all being encouraged to moisturize, when they should be discouraged from it. Not to mention the "private forum rules on what can be said" aspects and how they allow only the information they deem appropriate on their forum.

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  7. I can totally understand your frustration. I googled in vain for any experiences such as mine with ITSAN after I left appalled. It was refreshing to find your post.

    Definitely focus on your healing and try to let the anger go. I know it's hard, and unfair especially as others stumble into ITSAN and on the wrong path to healing: slathering on Vaseline or oils, eating whatever and hoping for TIME alone to do the work. Still I believe that those that are ready will find the truth.

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  8. Dan I don't take all your attacks and attempts to diagnose my mental state personally, as you have no idea who I am, nor does Jsan, who even had a psychologist attempt to diagnose me. What a horrible monster I appear to be! LOL!

    The bottom line with all this ranting about me and ITSAN is that you got called on your attempts to use their forum as your personal soapbox for all your conspiracy theories. They called you on it. That made you mad. I challenged you when you challenged me. That made you mad. You were banned and then sent Joey a 10,000 word atonement email pleading to be pardoned and taken back and promising to be a good boy in the future (I know because as a board member I have to review such things). She (we) said no, and rightly so because you kept ignoring ITSAN's posting rules not to mention sending her some rather harsh emails in the process. You then threw a fit which prompted you to go on your own personal crusade to bash ITSAN with every key you punch.

    You love people who agree with you and despise people who don't. You talk about wanting healthy debates when you proclaim to know "THE TRUTH." I don't debate such people because it is pointless to hop off on your bunny trails, and this is the last time I expend any of my valuable time on you and your rambling know-it-all tirades against me and ITSAN.

    You claim I am some cheerleader who blindly parrots some official policy, giving people bad advice and causing them to suffer horrendously and who tells everyone to moisturize with abandon. Again you just have an axe to grind with me so you decide to smear despicable me. The problem is the devil is in the details. I decided to go back and look at some of your and my previous posts. Seems you were promoting the use of moisturizers and were telling people to do what they needed to do to be comfortable. Funny, that's just what you accuse me of doing. Imagine the harm you have done! And while I cannot time travel back to the very beginning of my 26 month TSW journey and test out the no moisturizer theory, I acknowledged it could have potential and have even gone off moisturizers for the most part. You can read all of it below in separate posts to refresh your mind if you want.

    So see, it's not all black and white is it? I commend you for seeking ways to ameliorate the misery of this condition. Why not keep a daily journal of progress after stopping moisturizers? Take daily pictures, something which seems conspicuously absent from your claims thus far. Experiment with one hand by moisturizing it for a period of time and tracking any changes. These are the kinds of things that are needed if we are to begin to figure out if how to help this thing along. And I have discussed experimenting numerous times because I am a scientist by training and realize after 26 months that anecdotal evidence "because it seemed to make a difference" is pretty much worthless. But going on and on about the evil ITSAN just wastes all our time. Keep attacking me if you want, but why not look forward instead of making them the centerpiece of every post you publish? It's really too bad you feel the need to tear down others to build yourself up.

    I recognize I am probably giving you more cause to keep attacking and arguing because that's just what you love to do and seem to have unlimited time in which to do it. So keep posting that I don't have the balls to come back and answer all your future rants or whatever, but you are just going to be having a conversation with yourself, because as I said I won't make any more time for you. Good luck.

    PS - thanks to whoever pointed out your blog and your bashing of me. I never would have had the occasion to find it myself.

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    1. Aug 27 – my considering the idea that moisturizers may hinder progress due to a post on the subject
      There must be something to this. My wife has never used moisturizer of any kind. Never used cosmetics either. Never a drop of TS ever ever. She looks at least 10 years younger and has the most wonderful, supple skin. Hardly a wrinkle at age 48.
      - hide quoted text -


      On Friday, August 23, 2013 8:54:08 AM UTC-4, Gwen wrote:
      Thought this article on moisturizing was interesting. Sounds like the general population uses too much moisturizer, and it's detrimental to the skin. I don't think most people with normal skin even realize this. Had to use a little Egyptian Magic on my face yesterday...could not open my mouth to eat my lunch! It felt great and didn't cause any burning or itching, but have basically stopped using it and way less itchy. I wonder if we let the natural oils return if we'd grow older with fewer wrinkles?? We've always been fed the opposite...have to moisturize or we'll get wrinkles...I wonder...:

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    2. Aug 31 – your suggesting moisturizing is beneficial at early stages
      I initially started this thread using a different name (accidently), for those of you that aren't aware that. "highlan...@comcast.net" and "Dan" are the same poster. I want to thank all who posted here and hope you will continue to share. It has been an interesting thread and I personally have learned a lot from all of you.

      I just reviewed the thread from the beginning and see from the dates that I had actually healed the majority of my steroid induced eczema on my hands, and 100% of the fissures, cracks, cuts, and oozing, in just two weeks of stopping moisturizers. I doubt that would have happened if I went moisturizer free from day one of my TSW. I was in about my 7th week at the time. Mind you, I didn't heal from TSW, as I still had the itching and nerve pain, so obviously a ways to go. I also have steroid induced eczema with no accompanying nerve pain or extreme itching on my arms and legs, which oddly enough acts like my old eczema did a long time ago and doesn't bother me. I truly have no idea of how long this journey will take, other than anywhere from 6 months to 3 years. I healed the open wounds and much of the so called eczema on my hands, that's all. I last updated 3 days ago so will update now. It might be a little soon for an update but it can't hurt. I think the reason I'm writing right now at 1:30am is to keep my hands and mind off the itch.

      Right after my last update my hands had a minor setback. A few small fluid-filled oozing blisters opened back up on the exact area where I first started applying TS, and a few on the ends of three fingers on the same hand. Currently, these tiny blisters and a couple open cracks have mostly healed up again. My skin is looking better but I'm still experiencing a lot of itching in the evenings, and nerve pain. Not much itching in the daytime which is weird. This is much easier to deal with then the open cracks and fissures were! And, I have about 90% use of my hands back.

      I'm starting to think that it may be more beneficial to use a moisturizer mostly in the beginning stages of TSW. When you feel it's been enough time for open wounds to heal, but they just aren't healing, you might try going moisturizer free at that stage. Or, at any time during TSW you feel the itching is just too intense and you are ripping your skin apart. It's not for the faint hearted though. It's extremely painful, and as I mentioned before, I took antibiotics just to make sure I didn't get a bad infection while doing it. I felt it was a potentially dangerous thing to do, due to the condition my hands were in at the time. However, it was because of the horrible condition they were in that made me willing to take that risk. And, what I had read on the web.

      If you choose to try it give it a good week if you want to see if it is going to work because it's so painful in the first couple days you will want to go back to moisturizers before giving it a chance to work. You will know within a few days if the skin starts scabbing over or not. I could tell by the third or fourth day I think. My main goal was to dry the skin and make it scab over and heal those open wounds. And that worked for me. Moisturizing when you have no open wounds should be fine if it doesn't bother you. However, I wouldn't use anything but natural products. The skin absorbs everything we put on it into the body. There is a lot of truth to the saying "don't put on your skin what you aren't willing to put in your mouth".

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    3. Oct 20 – again my pondering stopping moisturizers and testing it myself

      The notion of stopping moisturizer is intriguing. It makes sense that it can clog pores and restrict natural sebum. Perhaps just like adding fake steroids, adding fake moisturizer reduces a natural process.

      I have used moisturizer in some form for maybe 30 years, with one notable exception - when I lived in Central America in the 90s. I occasionally used coconut oil a neighbor made, but during those 4 years I used no moisturizers because I couldn't buy anything that wasn't full of perfumes. They had no concept of fragrance-free. I also note that I did not have hot water so I never lingered in the shower blasting myself with hot like I love to do. The water I showered in was rain water. My skin was the best ever. I was in the sea daily, either scuba diving, snorkeling, or swimming for exercise. I lived in the water. Always plenty of sun year round. And my "eczema" was non-existent.

      After reading other posts about this topic I stopped on Monday and yesterday I also caved and put some around my wrists, on elbows, ankles and knees. The rest of me seems OK enough. Now granted my skin is normal again. I probably need to lighten up on the hot water. I don't really think I could have endured the added discomfort of not moisturizing when my skin was coming off like a lizard. So I don't know how far folks can go when they're struggling with TSW, at least in the really crappy early stages.

      I have found that if I begin to use lip balm for a while and then stop my lips get chapped unless I put more on, so I never use it. And it seems reasonable the rest of my skin could be doing the same thing.

      My wife has the most silky smooth awesome skin imaginable and she takes lukewarm showers and never ever has used moisturizers in her life. And certainly ditto for TS. I remember back in high school there was this girl who worked in a restaurant. She washed dishes all the time and I still remember how wrinkled and cracked her hands were. So I don't even know if it's just water exposure because I was in salt water a whole lot. I just never had hot water on my skin. Maybe the hot scours the sebum from the skin. Maybe our skin wasn't made to have 110F water spraying on it. It feels so great to take a long hot shower. Bummer.

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    4. Anonymous, I didn't know you and Tracy were the same person. I also wasn't aware you were on the board but that helps explain why I wasn't given a second chance on the forum after my 10,000 word atonement email to Joey. Your facts aren't quite correct. You said the board decided to not let me back because I kept ignoring ITSAN's posting rules not to mention sending her some rather harsh emails in the process. I did none of the sort after sending my atonement email to Joey begging for forgiveness and pleading to be allowed back. I waited, and waited and waited. After three weeks I gave up and began posting my experience with itsan on my blog. You had plenty of time to try and compromise, and to work things out, but you and the other board members chose to just ignore me after banning me as though I no longer existed or mattered. It was a very heavy handed way to deal with me and the concerns I brought to the boards attention and I didn't appreciate it at all.

      On Oct 8th I emailed Joey the following (just an excerpt from the beginning of my email):

      Hi Joey, the forum rules state that it is against the rules....."attempt to petition the owner/administration to change policy through posts, polls, email, PM or any other service found within the ITSAN.org website."

      "I don't know where the email link is to the forum owners so if I am breaking the rules by emailing you this email, please just pass this along to the owners, or let me know how to contact them. If it's ok to just email you then let me know as I prefer that."

      Here was her response: "This is why this rule was made: "attempt to petition the owner/administration to change policy through posts, polls, email, PM or any other service found within the ITSAN.org website."

      Me:
      "I just wanted to apologize again. I guess I got a little confused by the rule because of the statement at the end where it says "If you disagree, you may respectfully email the owners of ITSAN.org." I might have misread the first part where it does says "nor attempt to petition the owner/administration to change policy through posts, polls, email".

      "The beginning and ending statements in that rule seem to contradict one another but I get it now and won't make any more attempts to change or influence policy without being asked for my opinion. It would be nice to share ideas though, with you or the board but again, I guess if all members could do that it would be a huge headache."

      Joey:
      "You're right on that rule seeming contradictory when it says email as it is and part needs to be removed. It's aimed at publicly calling out admin. in the forum so thank you for pointing that out. I will change that one and yes, I do appreciate you emailing over asking in the forum."

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    5. So, Tracy, that's how that went. And I'm not on a crusade to bash itsan. Maybe a crusade to educate people, but no, not on a crusade to bash itsan. Although it may appear that way.

      I actually love all people and don't appreciate your comments. It must be nice to be able and go back to review posts on the forum, I don't have that luxury, thanks again. But, yes I did promote moisturizing with natural moisturizers early on and even found myself parroting what you and others were telling people, "the only healer is time". If you read my blog you would know that I have already mentioned how shameful I feel for having done such a thing, and that is part of the reason for my so called "crusade" as you call it. I was trying to fit in the group (being a good boy as you put it) but after a while I could see that moisturizing was not the way to go at all, and the time reference was making people feel helpless. I explained all of this in my blog. So, don't just take things out of context.

      And there you go again, making tons of personal attacks and then saying "I don't debate such people because it is pointless to hop off on your bunny trails, and this is the last time I expend any of my valuable time on you and your rambling know-it-all tirades against me and ITSAN." That is a chicken shit way to communicate and only condescending people such as yourself think that their time is more valuable then someone elses.

      Just so the readers understand, Anonymous's post dated aug 27th and aug 23rd are his posts, the one that follows and is dated aug 31 was my post. The oct 20th post is Anonymous.

      Yes Tracy, you did elude to moisturizing possibly being not such a good idea in those two post from august. But, you aren't showing all your other posts where at the same time you were telling people to not waste their money or time on diets and things. Again, I don't have the luxury of going back and pulling posts like you do so can't show the ones where you promoted moisturizing. I possibly even may have confused you with others on the moisturizing advice, not sure now, but again, I don't have acceess to the forum to check. But, I do vividly remmember you saying "don't waste your money and time on diets".

      And, just to show how clueless you are on healing from tsw, you don't even understand that people should avoid hot water! Hot water strips the oils from the skin just like soap does. It also agravates the sensitive skin.

      The aug 31 post is me giving real time info on how my experimentation with no moisturizing is going. The post dated oct 20 is Anonymous just 2-3 days after I was banned. You say in that post "After reading other posts about this topic I stopped on Monday and yesterday I also caved and put some around my wrists, on elbows, ankles and knees." By the looks of it my posts on MW must have gotten through to you. So, you ban me from the forum for my views on MW, and then proceed to do MW!

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    6. Tracy, the truth of the matter of why I was voted to be banned by you is you didn't like a new dog pissing all over your territory. I pissed you off in my first week of being a member of the forum by contradicting your advice to everyone over the age of 50 to get a Colonoscopy. Remember now? I'm sure you do. I backed up my statements with a link similar to this. Gut Sense

      Your new thread was a lop sided post displaying only one view, which coincidentally happens to be the same viewpoint of the whole medical establishment, and I thought it would be nice if readers could also see an opposing viewpoint. You started the thread and then the moderator of the forum (Joey) posted second after you parroting the same advice. So, I just wanted to bring a little balance to the thread for the readers. God forbid! Naturally, the thread was deleted. God forbid people see information you don't want them to see!

      Saying I got called on my attempts to use their forum as my personal soapbox for all my conspiracy theories is pure BULLSHIT. All of my posts were very constructive there, so what conspiracy theories do you keep referring to? If talking about the ill effects of moisturizing is construed as using the forum as my personal soapbox then there is something wrong. And, I only mentioned colonoscopies once.

      And as for the other board members. After the Japanese conference information came out showing that all the doctors there felt MW to be essential to recovery, I did send a long letter to the board demanding a public apology on the forum for banning me and publicly ridiculing my posts on MW, since the new information had confirmed what I had been saying all along was correct. I explained that I was made to look like a fool on the forum by certain staff and "vets" and that is where I wanted to see an apology.

      I also made it clear on how all you vets and staff were dead wrong on moisturizing and the matter of whether tsw can be sped up.

      The fact of the matter is, the board members weren't "big" enough to swallow their pride and admit they were wrong. My email was very "in your face" I'll admit but deservedly so. Regardless, even to this day itsan still holds to it's false beliefs on moisturizing. I think a lot of this is ego problems with you guys, You don't want to admit when you're wrong.

      You old vets should move on and allow new vets to take your place. New information is learned by new people going through tsw and your experiences were just that, your experiences. None of you did MW during most of your tsw so why don't you all just slide under a rock somewhere.

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    7. Tracy, you said "And I have discussed experimenting numerous times because I am a scientist by training and realize after 26 months that anecdotal evidence "because it seemed to make a difference" is pretty much worthless.". First off Tracy, MW doesn't "seem" to make a difference. It make a "significant" difference. Maybe you should educate yourself a little more on the subject since you have so much power over people and what is said on the itsan forum. Read the posts from people who have done it and you would see it makes a"significant" difference, just the same way I showed on the forum when I did it. It's not just me that makes these so called "conspiracy" theory claims.

      And, you are contadicting youirself when you say you have been open to MW when you really are a board member who makes the rules and policies of these things. As I pointed out in another post, Why Does ITSAN Continue To Promote Moistuirizing? Itsan is still promoting the use of moisturizers in the face of plenty of evidence that MW is a significantly better way. Not just what people who have done it say about it but also what Dr, Fukaya and other Japanese doctors who have done extensive studies in this area say.

      Below is a copy and paste of ITSAN's Q&A on moisturizers that I found on their site under the "Resources" tab.

      Q: What are the most common moisturizers used during topical steroid withdrawal?

      A: During topical withdrawal, you may experience very tight dry skin and extremely flaky skin. Although no moisturizer will cure or speed up topical withdrawal, using a moisturizer can help soften skin so movement is easier. Which moisturizer works best is highly personal.

      A simple moisturizer with few ingredients tends to work best as the skin is very sensitive during topical steroid withdrawal and may react to certain ingredients. Experts recommend Vaseline. Some people prefer natural oils. Olive, white palm, coconut, jojoba, and other pure natural oils have been recommended in the online support group.

      Be sure to read the label of any moisturizer you buy, even if the label says it’s intended for eczema. Many contain irritants and fragrances. It’s also important to read labels because a lotion formulated for eczema treatment may contain hydrocortisone, an over-the-counter form of topical steroids.


      On ITSAN"s Itch Q&A "WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT THE INSANE ITCHING?" Number 10. Put on coconut oil, olive oil, or your favorite gentle moisturizer.

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  9. Aug 31 – your promoting the use of moisturizers to the entire forum again and reminding us there isn’t any proof or guidance on the subject

    Hi Sandra, I can understand where you're coming from. If I had full body symptoms I don't think I would go without moisturizing for a long long time. You must be going through pure hell. I need to keep in mind that many people here have much worse cases of TSW than myself. My worst symptoms are mainly just my hands. It seems so insignificant next to your case, and many others I have seen. I suppose "buying" time by any means is the best ticket. I loved the feel of the dimeithicone on my hands and prefer to use it, but besides the itching and seemingly slower healing it caused, I made a conscious decision to not use it. If I had a worse case like yours I would probably do exactly what you have done. I guess we all experiment to find what helps the whole way through. There's no textbook for this and there are so many variables. I wish I had an answer to a natural product that feels the way silicone does but I don't. It just seems so counter intuitive to use something with dimeithicone for too long on the skin.

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    1. This comment on the forum made by myself was early on before I was 100% sure that moisturizing was the wrong thing to do, which I later found out through my own experience and research. Not from you or any others on itsan. Actually, in spite of you and others on itsan. On Aug 31st I was 10 weeks into tsw. I started MW just a week or two prior to this date. The consensus from the vets at the time was to moisturize, moisture, and moisturize more. Talk of not moisturizing was treated at the time as a taboo subject. I moisturized for my first two months not knowing any better. I trusted the vets experience for obvious reasons. Obviously, I had misplaced my trust.

      You can try and twist things around to suit your liking all you wish. Facts are facts. You have said nothing here that backs up anything you claim about me. Pointing out times I said I wasn't sure about moisturizing when I was still under the influence of the false idea that we should moisturize proves nothing more than my point.

      And, if you had read my most recent post about itsan from yesterday, before posting this morning, you would have discovered I have decided to drop itsan from my future posting. So, go on your merry way in peace because I'm done with the subject. I no longer hold any grudges or ill feelings towards you or itsan. I only feel compassion for all of you. I always have. I just got off on the wrong track temporarily.

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    2. I forgot Anonymous, Tracy, or whoever you are....take notice on how posts here are NOT deleted when they aren't in agreement with the owners of this blog. Also take notice that I welcome all viewpoints on healing tsw here. You are always welcome to post anything you want here without fear of being ridiculed or insulted as long as you are civil.

      Like I said I am done. I have accomplished most of what I wanted to accomplish. Which was to open up debate on moisturizing and ways to speed up tsw, and to get this information in front of the newer people starting tsw. I tried to do it in the itsan forum in a very civil way but got shot down at every turn and then finally banned. However, in spite of itsan banning me, I have been able to accomplish my goal of igniting debate on these issues and opening many peoples eyes via my blog :) Mission accomplished!

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  10. Very well stated Dan. I remember that feeling of trying to fit in too, it's nothing to be ashamed of. There is a depressing group think mentality on the ITSAN boards. You are well to be away from it. I have no doubt about your love of people and wanting to communicate what you have learned. MW is amazing in the way it speeds up this process. Do not let the arrogance and negativity of a few drown out this message.

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    1. Thanks jsan! Very few support me here like you and Ingrid do. I can't express enough how much I appreciate both of you. I know it's only because they are afraid of being "cast out" from "the" group. I can understand their dilemma. I think our message on MW is being heard loud and clear by many people now and that's exactly what I wanted. Now I can focus on my own healing more and get on with my life. I will be here until I decide to leave. In the meantime, I am available to help anyone who wants to do MW, or is having a hard time with MW, and needs help.

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  11. Stay above the fray. Dont stress yourself out over this any more or give it any more attention! Negative energy will only produce more negative energy. Youve found the way to healing for yourself and others will find this blog at some point like i did. Good night!

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